I'm the girl who defended Lord of the Rings. :( I feel REALLY REALLY bad for behaving like I did. I finally see your point... one of them. In the very first reply, you mentioned (I think...) that some people have read all the series, and not the Bible through. I get it. I am ashamed for ... kindly... yet in a mean way, not seeing you, and defending somthing that did not need defending. I will continue reading the Bible for OBviously I have not been doing that in a while. I think there are pro's and con's for practically everything people encounter now-a-days. I thank you and GOD bless you. (e-12/13/2002 7:48:01 PM) : ) <--- This is smiley face. Turn you monitor 90 degrees clockwise to enjoy its full effect. Thank you for your YV submission. I apologize for confusing you, the person who sent the last yv regarding Cinderalla and such, did not send the last two about the Lord of the Rings..."My point about the rat poison is that YOU were defending the series by highlighting the good and ignoring the bad." I think you just assumed that. (e-12/10/2002 9:54:33PM) I apologize for my error. Regrettably, all of the submissions on this page are from people who are unwilling to identify themselves. This desire to be left anonymous often leaves me with a lack of information and a bit of guess work. I will make every effort to not repeat such a mistake. If you were willing to reveal your identity (always kept between us, unless you give permission otherwise, see ABOUT YV) it would make it easier to avoid any future reoccurrences. You can always contact me by phone or in person if this medium is insufficient for our friendly discussion. maybe I'm confused about all this, how do you biblically defend a fictional book as not being rat poison (i.e. containing 1% poison)? I consider Cinderalla to be a good fictional story, but it has a fairy god mother, who uses magic and does nice things.So does that contain rat poison? Is all magic bad? Can a Christian be a magician? Maybe the differences in definition of magic, sorcery, and witchcraft should be considered (from webster's dictionary or your favorite dictionary). Sorry, I'm just confused about the whole thing and I apoligize for dragging this out longer. (e-12/10/2002 2:05:02AM) James 1:27 NKJV "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." It burdens me that so many of us Christians are spotted. My point about the rat poison is that you were defending the series by highlighting the good and ignoring the bad. Maybe you don't see the bad. I think the bad is quite obvious. I don't specifically list the bad I see to encourage you to seek God's view for yourself and also to avoid being accused of promoting my own views. No matter how much good you can come up with, if it has even a little bad, it should be avoided. God has called us to purity for a reason. 1 Timothy 5:22 NKJV "Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure." (Proverbs 16:2, Proverbs 20:11, Proverbs 30:12) Read November's YV on content versus influence & message. We should build our definitions from the Bible and then move out. Many people start from outside the Bible and then come in. There are only 2 types of supernatural power in this world, from God or lucifer. People that employ such power are agents of one or the other. Magic is never a word that the Bible would associate with an agent of God. According to the way God's Word defines the following: witchcraft is not of God, sorcery is not of God. A Christian can be a "magician" in the sense of being a non-supernatural illusionist (I know of a Christian who uses sleight of hand and allusion to show people the power of deception as a tool of the devil and he presents the Gospel that way). Look, the devil's power is real, and God's power is real. Cinderella is a special type of fiction called fantasy. Fantasy employs the supernatural. Unfortunately many people view the Bible and it's stories as fairy tales. I am not taking a stand against Cinderella but, I don't think that everything Disney is golden either (I realize Disney did not create the Cind. story). The devil is smart. he uses rat poison techniques. he is the master of deception. he packages deadly things in innocent packages. Don't be ignorant of his devices. 2 Corinthians 2:11 NKJV "lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices." So you're beginning to ask the right questions: Is there anything bad (by God's definition) in this particular thing I am choosing to entertain myself with? Does God approve of Christian witches? How can you promote or employ a power not of God and still claim Christ? Are the devil and his agents trying to trick us? Am I deceiving myself on the danger of this? It looks like rat food, smells like rat food, tastes like rat food, oh dis, I'm dead. To simplify this: Please take a serious look at how the devil is trying to influence us to become a lukewarm, ineffective church. The best way to do this is not a frontal assault but, through more discrete means in our homes and personal lives. The devil wants to corrupt the church from the inside. The devil likes Christians turning on each other (friendly-fire). Our only offensive weapon is God's Word. It's time to raise up a standard and advance on the gates of hell, because they will not prevail against it. (Isaiah 59:19, Matthew 16:18)You can always contact me by phone or in person if this medium is insufficient for our friendly discussion. Ok, first off, this may seem like I am yelling--I'm not! I'm simply replying. Well, I read the page you gave me to look at. I understand the points. My defense (as you mentioned you wanted to hear) is this: Throughout the whole Lord of the Rings series, Samwise (Frodo's companion) risked his life, home and everything baised solely on his word( not sware--simply a promise). This shows honesty and loyalty, a theme shared by the Bible. Also, throughout the series, Frodo and Sam had faith. Wether it was said in print, faith in God, Faith was something that was highly treasured. The point was that faith got them through when all seemed impossible and dark. In the end of the third book, Sam and Frodo finally get home to find that trees and houses were torn down by orc-like creatures. Frodo STILL did not wish to harm them. Even though they even hurt his family and friends, he refsed to use his power and strength to hurt them. EVEN when they ran into Saruman, the ONE man to blame for his Uncle Bilbo's soon death, and three years of torment, and his home and friends and families' pain and destruction, he didn't harm him yet, showed him mercy. Then, when Saruman tried to kill Frodo with a hidden sword, he even still stoped Sam from killing him. Just becasue it didn't say in print that Frodo showed them mercy as God would have wished, it didn't mean that mercy was any less important. If these traits found all throughout the series is not Christian morality, simply because it didn't mention the words in exact print, then I don't know what is. (e-12/8/2002 3:59:15 PM) I did not take a stance on the right or wrong of this series in my response. I'm struggling to combat legitimate concerns about this series myself. I am very against the popular series by Rowling but I can't adequately articulate why I am not as against the book series by Tolkien (the reason for giving the link for the article that was pro-Rowling and pro-Tolkien). Also I can't put into words yet, why I am a little more against the movie (by Peter Jackson & others) than the Tolkien book series. I already said there were many allusions to the Bible and many Biblical themes in the story. However, that does not defend the "bad stuff" in this series. My favorite analogy of late may help explain: Rat poison contains very little poison. Over 99% of rat poison is rat food. Food that is good, nutritious, healthy, sustaining, and I'm sure it tastes rat-licious. However, it's the deception, the mixing with, and swallowing of the little bit of poison that is fatal. So an abundance of good stuff is not a legitimate defense for swallowing the little bit of fatal bad stuff with it. I am not asking for your defense of this series for my sake but, so that you will be equipped and ready to answer those who bring up valid concerns. Specific siting of Scripture is much better than just saying, "well the Bible says..." (2 Timothy 3:16-17). We should all agree we are seeking God's will on this matter (Romans 12:1-2). We want to love Him with our entire being, including our 'entertainment' (Deuteronomy 10:12). I love Lord of the Rings books and movies. I have just enjoyed reading and watching movies that have to do with the series because it deals with having strength, being loyal, and just doing what they have to do. I really love it and sadly have been hearing that it's bad that I love it so much. I really don't want to feel guilty about seeing the movies or reading the book series. Are they wrong? It's not about witch-craft or anything. (e- Thurs. 3:39:26 PM 12.04.2002) First we'll make a distinction between the screenplay by Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, and Peter Jackson and the book series by J.R.R. Tolkien. The Lord of the Rings book series was recently named the most popular book of the 20th century. I saw the first movie once (didn't like it) and bought the Christian fiction novel for a friend last CHRISTmas. I have never read the books, nor intend to. Tolkien is a Christian who was called home several years ago. His book series has many allusions and parallels to the gospel message and Biblical themes. Many Christians defend LOTR and go after Harry Potter despite their apparent similarities. Some believe this stems from Tolkien being a Christian who taught at Oxford and helped C.S. Lewis become a Christian. Whereas Rowling (author of Harry Potter) is a divorced mother who only mentioned she was some kind of Christian when Christians starting attacking her. Both include magic as a 'literary device'. Both contain sorcerers and witchcraft. Despite books like 'Finding God in The Lord of the Rings' (by Kurt Bruner & Jim Ware); Tolkien never intended for these books to present the Gospel. If your conscience bothers you, listen to the Holy Spirit. The devil is clever, deceptive, and more powerful then us outside of Christ. Some people have completely read these lengthy books and have not read God's Word completely through. God's Word defines right and wrong, not I. I would be eager to hear your Biblical defense for this series. Below is a link used in research for this response and includes opinions' on this tiresome debate. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/106/13.0.html |
Your Voice |
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I'm the girl who defended Lord of the Rings. :( I feel REALLY REALLY bad for behaving like I did. I finally see your point... one of them. In the very first reply, you mentioned (I think...) that some people have read all the series, and not the Bible through. I get it. I am ashamed for ... kindly... yet in a mean way, not seeing you, and defending somthing that did not need defending. I will continue reading the Bible for OBviously I have not been doing that in a while. I think there are pro's and con's for practically everything people encounter now-a-days. I thank you and GOD bless you. (e-12/13/2002 7:48:01 PM) : ) <--- This is smiley face. Turn you monitor 90 degrees clockwise to enjoy its full effect. Thank you for your YV submission. I apologize for confusing you, the person who sent the last yv regarding Cinderalla and such, did not send the last two about the Lord of the Rings..."My point about the rat poison is that YOU were defending the series by highlighting the good and ignoring the bad." I think you just assumed that. (e-12/10/2002 9:54:33PM) I apologize for my error. Regrettably, all of the submissions on this page are from people who are unwilling to identify themselves. This desire to be left anonymous often leaves me with a lack of information and a bit of guess work. I will make every effort to not repeat such a mistake. If you were willing to reveal your identity (always kept between us, unless you give permission otherwise, see ABOUT YV) it would make it easier to avoid any future reoccurrences. You can always contact me by phone or in person if this medium is insufficient for our friendly discussion. maybe I'm confused about all this, how do you biblically defend a fictional book as not being rat poison (i.e. containing 1% poison)? I consider Cinderalla to be a good fictional story, but it has a fairy god mother, who uses magic and does nice things.So does that contain rat poison? Is all magic bad? Can a Christian be a magician? Maybe the differences in definition of magic, sorcery, and witchcraft should be considered (from webster's dictionary or your favorite dictionary). Sorry, I'm just confused about the whole thing and I apoligize for dragging this out longer. (e-12/10/2002 2:05:02AM) James 1:27 NKJV "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." It burdens me that so many of us Christians are spotted. My point about the rat poison is that you were defending the series by highlighting the good and ignoring the bad. Maybe you don't see the bad. I think the bad is quite obvious. I don't specifically list the bad I see to encourage you to seek God's view for yourself and also to avoid being accused of promoting my own views. No matter how much good you can come up with, if it has even a little bad, it should be avoided. God has called us to purity for a reason. 1 Timothy 5:22 NKJV "Do not lay hands on anyone hastily, nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure." (Proverbs 16:2, Proverbs 20:11, Proverbs 30:12) Read November's YV on content versus influence & message. We should build our definitions from the Bible and then move out. Many people start from outside the Bible and then come in. There are only 2 types of supernatural power in this world, from God or lucifer. People that employ such power are agents of one or the other. Magic is never a word that the Bible would associate with an agent of God. According to the way God's Word defines the following: witchcraft is not of God, sorcery is not of God. A Christian can be a "magician" in the sense of being a non-supernatural illusionist (I know of a Christian who uses sleight of hand and allusion to show people the power of deception as a tool of the devil and he presents the Gospel that way). Look, the devil's power is real, and God's power is real. Cinderella is a special type of fiction called fantasy. Fantasy employs the supernatural. Unfortunately many people view the Bible and it's stories as fairy tales. I am not taking a stand against Cinderella but, I don't think that everything Disney is golden either (I realize Disney did not create the Cind. story). The devil is smart. he uses rat poison techniques. he is the master of deception. he packages deadly things in innocent packages. Don't be ignorant of his devices. 2 Corinthians 2:11 NKJV "lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices." So you're beginning to ask the right questions: Is there anything bad (by God's definition) in this particular thing I am choosing to entertain myself with? Does God approve of Christian witches? How can you promote or employ a power not of God and still claim Christ? Are the devil and his agents trying to trick us? Am I deceiving myself on the danger of this? It looks like rat food, smells like rat food, tastes like rat food, oh dis, I'm dead. To simplify this: Please take a serious look at how the devil is trying to influence us to become a lukewarm, ineffective church. The best way to do this is not a frontal assault but, through more discrete means in our homes and personal lives. The devil wants to corrupt the church from the inside. The devil likes Christians turning on each other (friendly-fire). Our only offensive weapon is God's Word. It's time to raise up a standard and advance on the gates of hell, because they will not prevail against it. (Isaiah 59:19, Matthew 16:18)You can always contact me by phone or in person if this medium is insufficient for our friendly discussion. Ok, first off, this may seem like I am yelling--I'm not! I'm simply replying. Well, I read the page you gave me to look at. I understand the points. My defense (as you mentioned you wanted to hear) is this: Throughout the whole Lord of the Rings series, Samwise (Frodo's companion) risked his life, home and everything baised solely on his word( not sware--simply a promise). This shows honesty and loyalty, a theme shared by the Bible. Also, throughout the series, Frodo and Sam had faith. Wether it was said in print, faith in God, Faith was something that was highly treasured. The point was that faith got them through when all seemed impossible and dark. In the end of the third book, Sam and Frodo finally get home to find that trees and houses were torn down by orc-like creatures. Frodo STILL did not wish to harm them. Even though they even hurt his family and friends, he refsed to use his power and strength to hurt them. EVEN when they ran into Saruman, the ONE man to blame for his Uncle Bilbo's soon death, and three years of torment, and his home and friends and families' pain and destruction, he didn't harm him yet, showed him mercy. Then, when Saruman tried to kill Frodo with a hidden sword, he even still stoped Sam from killing him. Just becasue it didn't say in print that Frodo showed them mercy as God would have wished, it didn't mean that mercy was any less important. If these traits found all throughout the series is not Christian morality, simply because it didn't mention the words in exact print, then I don't know what is. (e-12/8/2002 3:59:15 PM) I did not take a stance on the right or wrong of this series in my response. I'm struggling to combat legitimate concerns about this series myself. I am very against the popular series by Rowling but I can't adequately articulate why I am not as against the book series by Tolkien (the reason for giving the link for the article that was pro-Rowling and pro-Tolkien). Also I can't put into words yet, why I am a little more against the movie (by Peter Jackson & others) than the Tolkien book series. I already said there were many allusions to the Bible and many Biblical themes in the story. However, that does not defend the "bad stuff" in this series. My favorite analogy of late may help explain: Rat poison contains very little poison. Over 99% of rat poison is rat food. Food that is good, nutritious, healthy, sustaining, and I'm sure it tastes rat-licious. However, it's the deception, the mixing with, and swallowing of the little bit of poison that is fatal. So an abundance of good stuff is not a legitimate defense for swallowing the little bit of fatal bad stuff with it. I am not asking for your defense of this series for my sake but, so that you will be equipped and ready to answer those who bring up valid concerns. Specific siting of Scripture is much better than just saying, "well the Bible says..." (2 Timothy 3:16-17). We should all agree we are seeking God's will on this matter (Romans 12:1-2). We want to love Him with our entire being, including our 'entertainment' (Deuteronomy 10:12). I love Lord of the Rings books and movies. I have just enjoyed reading and watching movies that have to do with the series because it deals with having strength, being loyal, and just doing what they have to do. I really love it and sadly have been hearing that it's bad that I love it so much. I really don't want to feel guilty about seeing the movies or reading the book series. Are they wrong? It's not about witch-craft or anything. (e- Thurs. 3:39:26 PM 12.04.2002) First we'll make a distinction between the screenplay by Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens, and Peter Jackson and the book series by J.R.R. Tolkien. The Lord of the Rings book series was recently named the most popular book of the 20th century. I saw the first movie once (didn't like it) and bought the Christian fiction novel for a friend last CHRISTmas. I have never read the books, nor intend to. Tolkien is a Christian who was called home several years ago. His book series has many allusions and parallels to the gospel message and Biblical themes. Many Christians defend LOTR and go after Harry Potter despite their apparent similarities. Some believe this stems from Tolkien being a Christian who taught at Oxford and helped C.S. Lewis become a Christian. Whereas Rowling (author of Harry Potter) is a divorced mother who only mentioned she was some kind of Christian when Christians starting attacking her. Both include magic as a 'literary device'. Both contain sorcerers and witchcraft. Despite books like 'Finding God in The Lord of the Rings' (by Kurt Bruner & Jim Ware); Tolkien never intended for these books to present the Gospel. If your conscience bothers you, listen to the Holy Spirit. The devil is clever, deceptive, and more powerful then us outside of Christ. Some people have completely read these lengthy books and have not read God's Word completely through. God's Word defines right and wrong, not I. I would be eager to hear your Biblical defense for this series. Below is a link used in research for this response and includes opinions' on this tiresome debate. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/106/13.0.html |
December 2002 # of submissions = 5 |
